*yawn*

you P-Platers as a whole are statistically greater risk takers, overworked, underpayed, overhormonal, underlayed problematic drivers.

Now, it isn't exactly fair calling an unfortunate group of people who happened to be killed for whatever reason, uncalled for names, when the government who is pressured by the public (ie, everyone else other than you and your sort) to clamp down on deaths of youths on the roads, by any means possible.

Its kind of hard for you to see at the moment, as it is a part of being young to feel invincible. You feel that it would never happen to you, and that the laws in place are rather draconian.

Let me tell you this: I reckon the government needs to clamp down even more. D1ckhead P-Platers (generalistic comment here) are whinging all the more about these laws, but instead of co-operating, they tend to break the law more.

Grow up. Abide by the laws. Grow some balls. Shut up. Lose your virginity. Get your gold license. Win.

Worked for the rest of us.

Im a p plater and agree with both XXB4XX and SOO081. Living in South Australia and not having engine/car restrictions does mean that there are more p platers who may have more money than sense, go and buy a fast car for the cred without even knowing how to drive them safely and properly.
I have no trouble with the rules that are currently in place or even if they toughened them, they are there for your own benefit in the long run and not just to pick on young drivers for the sake of it.
Whilst p platers are a demographic that have a higher crash/injury/fatality rate, what also needs to be taken into account is that for every stupid p plater there are also sensible ones.
I know this doesnt excuse the fact that p platers are risk takers, as SOO081 said, but equally there are a fair share of d!ckhead, full licensed drivers, and from what i have seen in my month of driving, by far the majority of idiotic drivers, (once again, only what i've seen), have been full licensed ones. The amount of times i have been tailgated while sitting on the speed limit to and from uni is unbelievable, it gets really annoying having someone sitting so far up your ass you can count the number of bugs in their grill.
There is always going to be p platers who will stand by them being top drivers and vice versa with normal drivers, (who more so will actually be good drivers) but in each case there are exceptions.
Just remember that no ones perfect and it is learning from your mistakes that betters your skills.

i understand that there is statisticly a greater risk of a p plater being killed.
but do you realy think that forcing them into cheaper less safe vechicles is going to stop the deaths? you only have to hit a tree at 100kmh to kill ur self and a deihatsu charade can do that.
do you think that limiting p platers to 1 passenger will save lives.
some people cant concentrate with more than one person yes, but then whats the difernce between a car load of pissed 30yr olds and  3 sober 20 yr olds comming home from work? theres a massive one IMO
S0081 your arguement is the rubbish excuse that the governments use, it makes little to no sence, what about a 25yr old p plater, or even a 30yr old?
IMO the majority of p platers while they may not have the expirence, generaly compensate by acutly taking notice. where as alot of full licenced drivers are so blazay about it there damn dangerous.

EDIT: i dont think im invincible, i've actully had a very serious accident, i hit a tree doing about 80kmh, both me and my mate were fine. but it managed to wrap the LJ around the tree.

Suprauc wrote:

i understand that there is statisticly a greater risk of a p plater being killed.
but do you realy think that forcing them into cheaper less safe vechicles is going to stop the deaths?

Yes. Slower cars will take slower to reach "deadly" speeds, thus inevitably, reducing crashes.

Suprauc wrote:

you only have to hit a tree at 100kmh to kill ur self and a deihatsu charade can do that.

Uh huh. But you'll get to 100km/h quicker in a WRX, for example. In inexperienced hands, it makes it all the more dangerous.

Suprauc wrote:

do you think that limiting p platers to 1 passenger will save lives.

Yes. Makes for less body bags.

Suprauc wrote:

some people cant concentrate with more than one person yes, but then whats the difernce between a car load of pissed 30yr olds and  3 sober 20 yr olds comming home from work? theres a massive one IMO

You're taking the argument off the rails by introducing other elements. Lets focus on the topic of discussion here: n00b p platers. Driving under the influence is another clear cut issue all together. That argument sucked.

Suprauc wrote:

S0081 your arguement is the rubbish excuse that the governments use, it makes little to no sence, what about a 25yr old p plater, or even a 30yr old?

First of all, If you do wish to quote me, at least forking use the correct spelling. In fact, I find it very hard to take you seriously when you have the spelling and grammar of a ten year old, which doesn't make for a good look, especially when you're trying to demonstrate your maturity.
Another example of your apparent immaturity is your absolute lack of being able to view it from an outsider's perspective, by labeling my reasoning as "rubbish". Guess what junior - its not rubbish! You cannot argue facts, you cannot argue statistics. You cannot argue against coffins. Sure the governments are an easy target to point the finger, but lets hold the finger pointing for a second... Its not because of the government, that P platers are crashing their cars. Its not because of the government that P platers are injuring and killing themselves. Its not because of the government that P platers tend to be reckless and inexperienced drivers....guess what...ITS THE P PLATERS!!

Suprauc wrote:

IMO the majority of p platers while they may not have the expirence, generaly compensate by acutly taking notice. where as alot of full licenced drivers are so blazay about it there damn dangerous.

Unfortunately, your opinion on P platers is pretty much null and void. How long have you held a full driver's licence? How many years have you been on the road? (not including L plate training) Again, you can't argue statistics. Nothing beats experience. In fact, experience builds upon the acute sensory perceptions.

Suprauc wrote:

EDIT: i dont think im invincible, i've actully had a very serious accident, i hit a tree doing about 80kmh, both me and my mate were fine. but it managed to wrap the LJ around the tree.

You have proven that you believe you are "invincible" as you don't agree to the current legislation put in place to protect P Platers... and that you wish to have such restrictions lifted, believing you have the ability to drive high powered vehicles.

Seriously man. Do your time as a learner. Because as a P-Plater, you really know one fifth of fcuk all, when it comes to driving and complying to all legal aspects of the law. You just proved it above with your foolish comments, and made yourself to look the a55 in the presence of experienced drivers.

yeah a WRX will reach 100kmh faster, but in town over 60 is illegal anyway, i agree that superchargers and turbo's are a no-no for good reason. but why is unmodified V8 illegal? they dont make all that much power IMO.

i believe victoria's legislastion is better with its power to weight ratio.

as for the pissed 30yr old, yeah not a good example but i've seen nana and her bowls mate all over the road before. age dosent mean jack.

how did i prove than i rekon im invincible? i said i dont! i think the laws need to be fine tuned considerably tho.

as for my spelling farkit, i couldnt care.

and yeah it was a torana >.< sh!t'a tho padock basher. even after the smash it limped 15k's home. the hole time the engine never stoped running. awesome little car.

by the way, you can't expect to live in a car accident at 60kph not 100. this is what i learned in my defensive driver course, i suggest all p-platers do one - not only is it a massive eye opener, its fun and will teach you how to handle your car, everyone thinks they are fangio (including myself) until you do a defensive drivers course.

Age doesn't make you a great driver, but it does give you experience in anticipating every other farkwit out on the road!

I used to share the same opinion as you on p-platers suprauc - then after 12 years of having my opens i found that its the P-platers that are under-experienced and tend to do stupid things on the road (race your mates etc..) driving over-powered cars. and that doesn't go for all p-platers either, its the few that make it bad for the most.

sorry mate, its an arguement your not going to win.

Hitting a tree at roughly 140 clicks has turned me into a good driver. I was not on p-plates at the time.

A brand new ss commodore driven well, will beat a new wrx to 100, and handle alot better than you think around a corner. A wrx will only have a chance if it is launched, how often do you launch at 5-7grand?

I wore p-plates for maybe two months, never wore them again - didn't even realise when I was no longer a probationary - this way, I could street race without being a tool.

This argument has been done to death.

Cheers,
nik

Baz Sta wrote:

I think the SS is an LS1 and the HSV was LS2....

WHO CARES??

Baz Sta wrote:

Pfft the Media only cover it, if its a p plater.

Umm no. Its only the P plater stories that catch your attention, and remain in your memory.

Baz Sta wrote:

heaps of car accidents everyday yet its only the smallest p plater prang that makes headlines?:suicide2:
"Headlining todays news hour, P plater Breaks the 60KM/h speed limit by 3km/h.:ohmy: :ohmy:  BLAh BLAH BLAH"

Got Quote? No one cares who speeds by 3km. Dumb exaggeration.

Smallest P plater prang? Have you even put two and two together and figured out why your insurance premiums are so expensive?

how many stories have you seen lately abouta full licenced driver street racing and crashing?  none? but i know of 2 guys in the last week, sure they didnt die, but there cars a r00ted.

and the VIC pigga's care about 3kms.

he did a good job huh? i agree with the power limiting. i belive in my personaly case i can handle a high power car, having done a little racing of my own im faily confident in my abilities (but as some one ells stated long term expirence is still unbeatable). but i have no problem with having to drive a NA car if it means some idiot with 2 brain cells wont kill them selfs and make my insurance go up. but i do think that the NSW gov  need to take a good hard look a the current legislation. as i belive it is drasticly flawed.

Passenger restrictions will encourage people to drink and drive.

Have we ever actually been given a statistic that lets us know the % of road deaths amongst p-platers that were driving a 'hipo' vehicle under the power to weight limit they have so wisely devised? I would think alot of these cars have a far better tolerance to crash situations - eg. the survivor of the above pictured wreck.

You can die in a suzuki sierra.

Terrible shame the loss of that sti wagon.

The passenger restrictions law had flaws right from when they started considering it but was overlooked due to the idea that it would save more lives than claim them.
However, i disagree with Suprauc in saying that performance car drivers are less likely to crash their cars than other people in stock cars. It all depends on the drivers attitude and the situations that they are in.
I know of a couple of friends who own performance cars and are on their p's and while most of the time they care for their car, sometimes when around other drivers or trying to impress other people, wouldnt give a s**t about it.
I mean do you seriously think performance car drivers spend lots of money on their cars and then just sit on the speed limit never doing anything wrong. Yes they may know how to drive them better if they have built them up themselves rather than just getting into the drivers seat and planting it, but it still doesnt excuse the fact that they too can go fast and crash.

Suprauc wrote:

on his P's his had them for around 12-14 months, and he has been through 3 cars

Am I the only one that is confused as to why you started this thread?