My very first sticky - I'm so chuffed....

Sounds like a totally different issue to the DMF. I'd say that yours is a clutch problem more than a problem with the flywheel.

zoliberty wrote:

Clutch problems after 68,000 k's? hrmm, Subaru is not really giving me a good impression since I purchased it, and here I thought Holden was bad.

WhiteRX wrote:

There can be any amount of problems with a car at any Klm range. The clutch is one thing that can stuff up pretty quickly if the car has ever been driven poorly in the past.

Your issue sounds as though it's a clutch wear problem, which usually cannot be claimed under warranty as it's a wear & tear item, same as your tyres and brakes e.t.c.

Is it really Subaru's fault that your car has a busted clutch?

WhiteRX wrote:

Interesting. What year is your car? If it's a later model, you might have more of a chance of pleading your case. Did you buy it from Subaru? Does it have a complete Subaru service history? These two will help your case if you want to try and get this fixed.

So we all know that the "sqwark" noise you are hearing is most likely a DMF issue but it also sounds as though you have some clutch wear issues with the shuddering e.t.c.
Subaru are not openly admitting that there is a manufacturing fault with the DMF for a couple of reasons. Firstly this would've meant a recall and secondly, there was a minority of cars with this issue which are potentially pushing ten years old, so have been fixed or can be put down to wear and tear.

I'm one of the lucky ones that has a late model genIII that is still under new car warranty, so Subaru Aust are still willing to help me out without much pushing on my end.

Even if they agree to fix your DMF issues at no charge, if they discover any clutch wear issues at the same time, this will not be covered and charged seperately.

UPDATE: Work is now completed. docklands were awesome, No charge for anything, not even the loan car.

They fitted a solid flywheel and new clutch kit. The clutch is much lighter than the DMF setup and also has a higher take up point than the DMF. Still getting used the the difference with that.

The engine revs are much more responsive than the DMF, I presume this is due to the Solid Flywheel being lighter than the DMF. There is a truck load more grab in this setup than the DMF setup.

So, even though it's early days, so far I'm pretty happy that I decided to get it changed over.

If you have the means, get this done.

zoliberty wrote:

WhiteRX, was your car on warranty? Who did you speak to? Can you scan an invoice? >>;]

Hey all,

After much anticipation i've just bitten the bullet and changed the clutch/flywheel assembly from a sprung Dual Mass Flywheel and a solid clutch to a sprung clutch and a Solid Flywheel!

Well it all started when i heard noises - thought to be the thrust bearing or something like that. So with the car having done over 120k km, i decided to go all out and get the whole clutch kit and flywheel replacement.

Subaru want $1900 for parts and labour but i managed to source a clutch kit and solid flywheel assembly from Jim Berry at Race Clutch in QLD. Top bloke by the way! $495 delivered. Had to organise then the solid flywheel bolts from Subaru. Then had the clutch fitted at Cromwood Auto Services for $370 - Fantastic service, had the whole clutch swapped out in just hours.

So i'm very pleased with the work carried out. The car is honestly better than new. So much better to drive now, no budgie noises and best of all no DMFlywheel squark!! Recommend it to any manual Lib owner!

Tim.

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Just keep stressing to them that this is a design fault and explicitly describe the symptoms. Cite other owners that have had the DMF replaced.

To provide you with a bit of background, I had mine replaced mid last year with another DMF (they wouldn't do a solid mass flywheel) at Docklands. I had to pay for the labour, which was about $700 and it was found that my clutch was buggered too so that was another ~$400, but the part itself was replaced at no charge to me.

Make sure you talk exclusively with Subaru Australia about this until they refer you to a dealer service manager once/if they have agreed to service it.

Well I've been a Holden man from the start, since '05, end of '07 I decided to leave Holden and try something different, ala Subaru, well, it has certainly left a bad taste in my mouth, I've learnt to live with the shuddering, squark, jolting etc but I don't know if I'll buy one again.

MY02RX;119521 wrote:

Peter Mikeska (Service Manager) of Subaru Docklands just called to say that if I changed to a single mass flywheel, the same problem would come back after 15 to 20k.

His view is that judder is caused by hot spots on the clutch and it is best to feather the throttle at 12 to 1500 rpm when I have judder and the problem will go away.

Their experience is that the problem exists for both single mass flywheel and dual mass flywheels. The reason the single mass was changed to a dual mass was to reduce clutch judder, but that didn't work either.

The clutch shriek is apparently caused by dry bearing/spacers. Even though they were replaced along with a clutch assembly three years/40k ago, over time the problems have returned as the bearing became dry again and the clutch developed hot spots.

He suggested that you would see blue hot spots on the clutch if it was removed. He also suggested it is a common feature of four wheel drive cars.

He confirmed that my clutch is only 40k old and they should last 100k for a careful driver, so clutch wear is not an issue.

I queried why there is a service bulletin in America to change the flywheel to single mass to resolve this issue if it does not fix the problem, but he just talked about how there are various therories, but in his experienec, changing to single mass flywheel does not work for long and the same problem returns.

I suggested it was a vibration issue, that if it were hotspots, these could be removed by feeding the clutch in at 3000 rpm to remove the surface of the clutch, but that hadn't worked. He suggested it was a feature of four wheel drives and common.

Also, Subaru Assured warranty will not cover this kind of problem when it is due to wear or inherent in the design, they will only cover mechanical defects/failures.

In short, Subaru Australia do not accept these problems as a design fault that is fixed by changing to single mass flywheel and is something that is inherent in four wheel drives.

I believe that is the end of the story, so looks like I will soon become an ex-Subaru owner when the warranty runs out. I would expect short drivetrain life and expensive clutch repairs in the near future, so I am not going to keep this car if it is an inherently flawed design. Never had any clutch problems with two wheel drive cars, I like the look of the Honda Euro or Lexus IS200!!!

Any thoughts or comments?