B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Hey guys...

I've been noticing a fair whack of fellas on here are going single turbo - which makes sense considering how much we all love our Aus Delivered twin-turbo tune (NOT!)

Issues surrounding the desire for conversion include heat soak issues, valley of death type lag (even with the Tek2) and short supply of aftermarket parts.

So I'm looking at heading down this avenue (being the conversion) as well.

After talking to some rather knowledgable people on the subject the plan is:

To run a VF34 w/ P18 exhaust housing or VF28/29
Front mount intercooler
Apexi Power FC OR Haltech E8

To accompany this, will be 2" stainless steel piping into the FMIC, and 2.5" from the FMIC to throttle body. Also will be adding on a 3" stainless steel turbo back exhaust.

From my understanding, the Power FC works on a MAP sensor as opposed to the AFM - which apparently is better as the AFM is subject to inaccuracies, right? Thus the introduction of a 300ZX Z32 MAP sensor would be required.


What I really need to know right now is, in the opinions of teh OzLiberty brethren, have I got the right idea and am I heading in the right direction? IYO?

Cheers.

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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are you keeping the TT block and just whacking a single turbo on it? wouldnt it be easier just to drop an STi engine in?

deapoNe
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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STi block = a few more dollars.

The TT Block is convenient as I already have one AND it does have some strengthed internals - only forged pistons (not con rods too maybe?) from memory and it currently handles 16PSI rather well.

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Good luck finding a PFC that works with a B4 wiring loom.

Sounds like fun though.

I personal Love the TT.

Bring on a FMIC though big_smile

rxliberty2000
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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What do you aim to achieve with the car mate? Just want to get rid of the VOD and pinging or to build a beast or both?

MY02B4
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Oh yup... absolutely.

I love the TT too BUT... it's just lag overkill and in summer... yuck. Your conversion is yet to experience summer, mate, from memory?

I'm after response. I don't care much for power and I'm certainly not chasing ponies. On this quest for response, lightened components are yet to come. Currently alloy billet type flywheel which is noticeable different (and I suggest everyone should go out and get one) - pulleys soon and other main drive components possibly to come.

I'm aware that spool time on a single will start at ~3000rpm depending on components used (turbo, pipes and the sort as opposed to the 2300rpm the they currently start spooling at.

In regards to PFC...

That's another thing I needed to know.

What's different between the B4 loom and a WRX loom?

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Sounds like a fair amount of work and $$ involved mate, g'luck with it all.  I also enjoy the TT; just need to minimize the VOD to make it more responsive in the midrange, in addition to pings and heat soak and i'll be content with her.  smile

B4Cruiser
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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All turbo cars will ping during summer, its inevitable. If you're not chasing power then you dont really need to do a single conversion. You will be very surprised how much difference a TBE + tune will do to the B4. Heaps of people have thought about selling their B4 due to the reasons you mentioned but after a tune, its a totally different car. Its true that you'll never get rid of the VOD but ask anyone with a tune and they will tell you the power delivery is much more smoother and you can barely feel the VOD. Keep in mind that by going to a single, your day to day driving probably wont be the same low down off the line.

MY02B4
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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My car has been though summer, and yes it was a pig, but TMIC will do that.

Hence why I will go FMIC to reduce that heat soak.

Then do the dumps, and get a tune, and I will be completly happy with my car.

esp with the braking and suspension package I am running.

rxliberty2000
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Of course... Thats understood.

The car currently has the Tek2 - but it's still not that fantastic and it's very limited.

I do hold some faith in a TBE but like I said - It's still very limited.

What next though? Upgrade the turbos to ball bearing types as opposed to the factory brush bearing types?

Even with the introduction of a FMIC due to pipe lengths and greater intercooler volumes the car is suceptible to even more lag. Is this even able to be tuned out?

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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rxliberty2000 wrote:

My car has been though summer, and yes it was a pig, but TMIC will do that.

Hence why I will go FMIC to reduce that heat soak.

Then do the dumps, and get a tune, and I will be completly happy with my car.

esp with the braking and suspension package I am running.
Ahh good stuff smile

Glad to hear it smile

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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I've driven MY02B4's dog of a car with his TBE + *cough* Tek2 and i can say its more responsive than mine (TBE, EBC) with minimal VOD.  Whether his being manual has much affect :Dntknw:  Hence, i'm planning a Utec later in the year and i'll be content with her; performance wise.

Ultimately, if you aren't content with ur Tek2/other mods u've done and have the $$ for a conversion, go for it. :victory:

B4Cruiser
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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I am yet to drive a car that has gone from TMIC to FMIC that has increased lag.

Yes "technically" there is more air volume that would create more lag.
But I have never noticed any more lag, even with long pipe lenghts.

rxliberty2000
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Coming from up north might be a problem for him as well because they experience warmer weather than we do down here and they dont get those great melbourne nights smile

Is the VOD still THAT noticeable after Tek2? I found that the power delivery is much smoother. I dont see my passenger lean fwd then get pushed back into the seat during the pre-tek2 days. With some aftermarket dumps, you'll keep up with the small cars that usually jump you at the line and i'm talking about normal driving. Torque has improved alot since TBE. I can basically floor it anytime and pick up boost very quickly. You can basically cruise around in VOD territory and do the same.

In your case, maybe you want to consider getting a FMIC first?

MY02B4
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Funny you should say that because FMIC was certainly first on my lists of bits and pieces to gather (hunter gather style... I'll learn about part farming soon enough).

OK, so fortunately I never owned the car pre-Tek2 so I can't tell you a great deal.

On a side note - The car had a MRT TBE before I bought it (which Kosti now owns) and was retuned when the exhaust was removed. I also had an engine rebuild after it dropped a big end and hasn't been retuned.

Yes... That VOD is bloody noticeable, unfortunately eh.

Summers here are horrific. Several times earlier this year I had experienced boost cut and all sorts of other heat related horrid things happening.

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Do you have a dyno printout? If MRT did the tek2 then it would probably be as good as any tek2 tuner in aus. Is yours a manual or auto? Maybe it needs to be retuned to suit the warmer conditions where you are?

I remember for the first couple of summers in melb, it was a pig to drive. I just couldn't drive it without it pinging its nuts off so had to take it easy and pretty much drive off boost. That probably explains why my engine hasn't blown up yet. Also it depends on driving conditions. If you're driving it in peak hr traffic most of the time then chances are it will ping more than others due to that nasty heat soak.

In the interim, perhaps give a DIY waterspray setup a go? Mixed opinions/results there. If you havent already tried different fuels, give that a go as a short term solution.

MY02B4
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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If you do go down the route of a single turbo conversion, i recommend using a Haltech E8 with MAP sensor....and run no AFM, it saves all the mucking around with trying to get a better one...(Z32). AFAIK we used the standard B4 wiring loom.

You will get a shock at first with lag issues comming from the TT, as there is no little VF33 to cover that end. But after a while you will get used to it..and when boosts hits a 3000RPM you will not stop grinning:)  gaurenteed.

But if your STD b4 turbos are fine, then there is no reason to go single as the twins are capible of making 180kw's atw which is about where a VF34 will get to without going over 19psi of boost.

keep us informed mate

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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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I read you had a rebuild.. did you stroke it?  Increase displacemnt (xx:)xx)..  add to what's beneath the turbos and let them do their thing..  no more 1994cc..  (+1 fmic)

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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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Yes!
Finally someone else that's like me.
TT's are cool and what not, but no matter what you do, VOD will be there inevitably.
Aftermarket parts are few and far in between.
And to find a mechanic that's savvy with the subaru TT setup...(that won't skin your wallet clean)... ha!
Single/FMIC is a brilliant Idea IMHO.
advantages are as already discussed.
Soon, I'll convert. At the moment, unfortunately, there's too much on my plate :no2:

regashi
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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best turbo i have felt in terms of responsiveness and power = vf34.

on a bugeye wrx, vf34, sti tmic, 3inch TBE, haltech interceptor and water spray makes over 170atw on SMW dyno and can feel the power coming on even before 3000rpm.

alexxx
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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No strokings... new short motor the same as original was replaced smile

iOrion
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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VF34 = orright turbo.

I'd at least go a VF23.

regashi
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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DOOOOOO IT! But make sure u fit it and do everything u want all at once.

PS. Ur front mount requirements suit my FMIC kit that i have for sale :>  $500 and its urs.

SUB4RU
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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did i read correctly that your wanting... Response.?

you wont gain it by going to a single

FMIC makes a HUGE improvement on the doughyness thats associated with the topmount aswell as the general driveability/feel of the engine, and youll get much faster boost and response from a tiny turbo than a 34 or 23 etc.

drive a conversion or an rs lib with a single then drive a b4 with exhaust fmic and ecu tune. then report back which is more responsive. smile

if you have an auto then it will never be very responsive anyway.

billsy
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A sad day is coming...

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Whats a TT capable of?
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Re: B4 Single Turbo/FMIC conversion.

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SOO081 wrote:

Yes!
Finally someone else that's like me.
TT's are cool and what not, but no matter what you do, VOD will be there inevitably.
Aftermarket parts are few and far in between.
And to find a mechanic that's savvy with the subaru TT setup...(that won't skin your wallet clean)... ha!
Single/FMIC is a brilliant Idea IMHO.
advantages are as already discussed.
Soon, I'll convert. At the moment, unfortunately, there's too much on my plate :no2:
Me and mechanics don't mix. smile

alexxx wrote:

best turbo i have felt in terms of responsiveness and power = vf34.

on a bugeye wrx, vf34, sti tmic, 3inch TBE, haltech interceptor and water spray makes over 170atw on SMW dyno and can feel the power coming on even before 3000rpm.
It's good to hear... but on a Bugeye? :swoon2:

Lots done to it I can see smile

SUB4RU wrote:

DOOOOOO IT! But make sure u fit it and do everything u want all at once.

PS. Ur front mount requirements suit my FMIC kit that i have for sale :> $500 and its urs.
Hah thanks mate. I knew you were one person that would welcome such a conversion...

billsy wrote:

did i read correctly that your wanting... Response.?

you wont gain it by going to a single

FMIC makes a HUGE improvement on the doughyness thats associated with the topmount aswell as the general driveability/feel of the engine, and youll get much faster boost and response from a tiny turbo than a 34 or 23 etc.

drive a conversion or an rs lib with a single then drive a b4 with exhaust fmic and ecu tune. then report back which is more responsive. smile

if you have an auto then it will never be very responsive anyway.
Response... yes.

I'm aware that pants happy spool time with a VF34 isn't going to start until much later (depending on exhaust housing paired of course) than the current VF33/32 set up.

I have actually driven an RS just recently... yes it did only have a VF12 and it did only start spooling at 3000 but it didn't require too much effort to get there - and when it did get there... PHWOARRRRRR!!! Single Turbo FTMFW!

Factory 5 Speed Manual smile Auto FTL.

Realistically, later boosting is the only thing that I'm concerned about...

iOrion
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